SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hey, welcome everyone to one more episode of Beyond the Case. This is a podcast where global business leaders from Howard Business School's OPM community join in a personal capacity, and they come on this show to share the real life lessons, uh, principles, mental models which go behind building enduring companies. Today's guest is Dato Neto. Uh, he just finished Unit 1 at OPM. And so it's a pleasure to connect with him. This is how the network grows as well. I was introduced to him through another guest on this show. And Dato, you know, I'd love to learn more about uh who you are, what you do. I'm sure the listeners would as well.

SPEAKER_01 0:40

Thank you. So, and as I was telling you offline, this is an amazing initiative. Definitely one of the richest parts of the OPM community and the OPM experience is learning more about everyone. And regardless of how much we engage on the process of talking to people and getting to know people, it is really tough of doing it with 180 peers during such an overwhelming small amount of time. Uh so it is incredible for you to have this initiative and give uh OPMers the chance of sharing amazing stories. I was telling you about a few. Uh I have been listening, like I don't know, maybe 20 already, and I'll I'll I'll definitely and certainly keep listening to all of you. So, congratulations on on your initiative and and your commitment to enhancing the reach of the OPM community. Thank you very much. Um from my story is is uh I I had a pretty non-orthodox career. First accounting program uh I've been through, I was still a young teenager because I was I was getting a job as an assistant in a parking lot in my hometown, the center of the city. And the owner offered me a salary of $100 a month plus 10% of the profits. And then first thing I had to do is learn how to calculate a profit so I could understand how much money I would make. And and and that I was like 14, 15, 14, maybe at that time, and I never stopped. I started my career in the in uh in the foreign trade area. Uh I used to work for the largest trading company in Brazil. And in in the beginning of 1999, uh we had a maxi devaluation of Brazilian currency, and that exploded or imploded everything related to import processes. And it was a really, really challenging moment, but in the end, thoughtful, deep learning period. And at that moment, I I ended up shifting to more leaning to financial, which is pretty much where I stood my entire career. I spent a great part of my career doing MA in the US. I spent like roughly seven years in a big organization of MA and Kaivo coming back and forth from Brazil, working on multiple transactions, cross-border transactions inside the US, transactions, transactions in Latin America. And in 2014, uh I couldn't help missing my kids because I was traveling so uh so hard, and I had I had made them a promise that I would create something that I didn't know what it was, but I would create something with value and meaning that would make them understand that all the sacrifice, the the distance and effort would be worth doing it. And in 2014, I was l uh 2014 was certainly the worst year of my life. I was having a really hard time missing them. And I was having lunch with a friend here in Sao Paulo, and and and I said, like, I just can't stand this life anymore. And it was good from a professional perspective, it was great for my career, financially speaking, and everything, but but but but it didn't connect to the things that I care the most, which is the root of my family. There's absolutely no my family is for me absolutely second to none. And I ended up drafting, to be honest with you, as as we should, sharing with our OPMers, a little bit drunk at the end of the lunch. So I I just catched an idea in the back of a napkin of a financial research company that that would be something like Morningstar is in the US. And globally, Morningstar was at that time the largest independent research in the world. And I said, why we don't have this in Brazil? Like it is it is incredible. And there's a quote from one of General Atlantic's co-chairs, who's Martins Cobari, that he always says that understanding financial markets in Brazil is pretty easy for him because the US market is Brazil's tomorrow's newspaper. And and and you never know when tomorrow will come, but but structurally speaking as a trend, it should go in that direction. And then I pursued that. I had never worked worked with financial research, but I had indeed been a client of a financial research. I have consumed a lot of financial research throughout my career. So I knew the do's and don'ts. Like if I have to call does in here and like make your customer a hero. My point was I was a customer of financial research, and I know, or I think I knew, I thought I knew, how to make a customer a hero without having this concept, obviously, that that we're just learning at OPM. And it ended out that we founded a company, and among major storms and crises and everything, uh, it was fun because when we launched the company, it was 2015, and there was a uh a financial media outlet in Brazil who was really credible. And this journalist he wrote an article about the launch of my company, saying, time will tell if launching an independent financial research company focused in capital markets in the middle of the worst financial crisis, macroeconomic crisis in Brazil for five or six decades, is a great sense of opportunity or a large amount of stupidity. And it ended up that a few years later, that that company became the largest B2B uh independent financial research in South America. Uh, we had an offer to sell uh 30% of the company to Morningstar, who was at that time the the not only the largest in in the world, but my inspiration and and my my benchmark. And at the same time, the exactly same week, I had a second offer from a local bank called Banco Modal, who who was backed by Credit Suisse, have just made a pre-APO finance, and they offered me a cash and equity transaction, and I and the the the the deal was to consolidate my our company that was called Eleven Financial into the bank's platform, create an ecosystem for investors, and IPO that. And so I joined the bank, became a partner of the bank, a member of the executive board of directors of the bank and led the proprietary proprietary MA area of that bank. We led the IPO process, we succeeded with the IPO, and then seven months later, and nine nine acquisitions made in a really short period of time, we sold the bank. We ended up selling the bank. So there was a pretty, pretty intense period of time after that, and all the regulatory stuff and all the approvals. I sold, I walked out, I was still uh for an additional year. I had an offer to be the CEO of a telco company back in my hometown. That was a great experience with some deep learning process of don'ts, what things that I don't want to do, some failures on choices and everything that teaches us a lot. And I ended up in 2023, decided that we were going to set up a single family office and just take care of our investment and calm down and slow things a bit. Uh, I went to London to go through an executive program called SEP at London Business School. And that condu uh lasted three or four months. I started a new venture, which is an investment firm, an asset management firm focused on alternative investments, which are more like pipe investments, private equity, and growth equity investments. Uh, we started with proprietary capital, and now we have already deployed three funds and going to the fourth fund being deployed. And every fund has one big institutional investor as a co-investor. And so we have a combination of three sources of capital: proprietary capital, institutional investor capital, and and what is commonly known as friends and family, other family offices or people that that relate to to ourselves. We already have a relevant stake of around 15% in a Brazilian listed company, and another another important stake in a global AI company for verticalized AI for our financial sector, which is the disruption of that company that I that I built and sold back there. That company is Israeli founded, but today present in more than 15 or 16 countries already. Just made an acquisition in the US. I became the executive chairman of this company in the US. So I spent a good chunk of my time, coincidentally back in Chicago as well. And the third fund is a credit fund that is already deployed that that we fund supply chain for the for AAA companies, like big, big companies. We we we provide credit to the suppliers of this company, anticipating receivables and giving them oxygen to fulfill all the demands that supply into a big company, they always require you to have a long period before you collect your receivables. We looked about a lot about this with VG in our accounting at OPM as well. And the fourth fund is a private and public equity blend that will be deployed hopefully over the next few weeks. So sorry for taking long, but it's a short, uh it's a short version of a multi-year adventure that that that brought me here. And it's a pleasure to be able to share this with you.

SPEAKER_00 10:57

Amazing, man. How important was that lunch from 2014 where you got a little drunk and it bought this journey?

SPEAKER_01 11:05

That was absolutely incredible. And talking about importance, I had a mentor, more than a professor, during my time in Chicago, an Indian mathematician called Manoj Adikari. And I took uh he in the US, he uses Mike as his name. And and I I had a chance to to to be with him a couple of months ago in Chicago, and I told him that he doesn't even know how important he was in my life. Like so, I'm a big admirer of the Indian culture, the the the the the thoughtfulness, the mindfulness, the the the solidness on values and everything. He taught me a lot. So there are two definitely really important milestones, which is that lunch in 2014 and and my period with Professor Manaj in Chicago, if you allow me, I'll show I'll tell just a super short story. We created together a financial indicator that that was used to price uh credit spreads and equity risk premium based on sustainability premises, which at that time wasn't even called ESG yet. It was called CSR, which was corporate sustainable responsibility. And we used the 10th principle of the Global Compact to calculate risks of supply chain and governance standards. Because if you take credit spreads and equity risk premium, this is basically derived from future risk of performance, future cash flows sustainability. How predictable are cash flows of a company? So they will be able to pay their debt or generate profits and revenues and dividends on the equity aspect of it. So being able to analyze supply chain and looking at governance and transparency was something that that could be really worth for the financial industry. So we developed that, like I developed with with his mentorship and two other people that were really important to the project as well. And when I finalized that, I gave that indicator a name. And the name of that indicator was Seva, which was sustainable equity value. And I presented to my Indian professor, and then he said, Did you put this name to please me? And then I said, No, like it just popped up, it just invented it. Like, and I had I definitely don't have marketing skills. And then he told me that I don't know if I'm going to quote it exactly, but but uh in in Indian culture, if you do seva to someone, you do good things to people. So so we were talking about transparency, governance, sustainability, and and the coincidence that the name was seva. So uh but I had the amazing, amazing luck to have great people who believed in me, who supported me, and who gave me the chance to grow. I was there to take my opportunities, was always committed to delivering my best. But I had amazing people who believed in me. And and and if I if I didn't have them, I would definitely do not have the career that I was able to make, be the entrepreneur that I was able to make uh to to become in all these learning processes. So I am addicted to learning. So so I loved that lunch, was with a great, great friend that I admire a lot with all this mentorship process and all the chances of these people who taught me so much through my career.

SPEAKER_00 14:52

You you had the realization about finally making sure you have time for your family in 2014. Has family always been a priority for you, you know, since the time you were much younger as well? And did you try to intentionally attempt to build a life such that your family becomes a core piece of your time? Uh or do you think somewhere life just went on and you recognize, hey, slowly I'm I'm losing control on my ability to prioritize family, and that brought about a change?

SPEAKER_01 15:27

That's that's that's obviously one of the greatest questions you you can make, and one of the deepest questions to answer that. Uh what I can tell you is that ever since I was a kid, this is a funny story in my life, that when I was a kid, and you asked me what what I wanted to do when I grow up as a dad, the answer was a dad. So when I had Julia, who's my my my older daughter, uh it was the accomplishment of a dream in my life. And then we have Pedro, and now I have Julia, Pedro, and and a stepdaughter called called Catalina. And and and and and and via my wife, she she she's absolutely incredible in supporting me on all initiatives. And we live really tightly close to our families and to what we do. So the main answer is yes, I always did everything I did uh because I wanted to be able to provide, to, to, to, to, to give my my family the example and the certainty that I was always doing my best. It's not about being flawless, it's way far from being flawless, but but understanding that the purpose was always the reason why. And honestly, during the toughest times, and and I promise you, I had really, really, really tough times in this, in this, in this financial, in this professional sorry, history, my family was always my pillar. And and and and now being able to to to have technology as we have today, like I spend a good chunk of my time traveling, still do, and and be able to talk to all of them on a daily basis, to see them uh using technology to to to to incentivate them to follow their dreams, uh and and to have someone by my side as I have as my wife, who who who who who pushes me, who believes in me. And and I I I I I I try to to share with them, with the kids, just the clear message that if we lead by example in our in our in our companies, and I think it's the only way to lead, or effective way to lead is by example, if I can show them that like a few, a few, a couple of months ago, I was in New York for a couple of meetings. We were doing a sort of non-deal roadshow. And then I flew back to Brazil on Friday to spend the weekend with my family, and I flew back to Chicago on Sunday evening. And then they said, but but you're crazy. Like you were in New York, just grab a flight and grow and go to Chicago. And then I said, like, I would never, never not come home to stay for the weekend with family. So, yes, this is my main purpose, my pillar, my strength, my, my, my, my fortress, and and and everything. So, so I I try to honor it. I I think it's a good way to put it in perspective. I try to honor it all the time.

SPEAKER_00 18:36

That's how it should be. Um, you spoke about some very dark times. You mentioned at one point that, you know, you were part of a telco company, there were failures, there were don'ts, et cetera. Without going into specifics on you know what those moments would be. Could you reflect a little bit on what your takeaways were from these learning curves that you went through, from these testing periods you went through? Were there any lessons that came out of these moments?

SPEAKER_01 19:02

Yes, certainly. I would say I would highlight two things. And one of these I heard in one of your podcasts, and and fortunately, I I heard many of that. And unfortunately, I cannot quote exactly who said this because it's it's uh I heard many amazing stories, is something that we carry in our institutional presentation today at Tuesday Capital. And it's one of the lessons I learned the hard way. We respect what we don't know. And and and respecting the the unknown and being able to find comfort under the discomfort zone is a great learning process. It's a process supporting pain, uh, being humble to learn, understanding and respecting that you will not have all the answers all the time, and that's okay. That is how life is. And in the end, we are forced to make decisions at every single time under an imperfect pack of information, right? So so I I I became not an uh an addict to it, but but but I'm not a deep specialist on anything, but but I'm a curious of many things. And and two of the things that I became really curious about was quantum physics and and and behavior economics. So when I hear some some some concepts of uh the energy aspect of it, the the the the way we we can put energy to work for us, the concept that Herb Simon brought, like for example, in in behavior economics, which is the bounded rationality. So understanding that rationality is limited in many aspects and times in life. So I think that is that is uh some some really valuable learning outcomes. And and I would say the second one, and this may sound cliche, but but it is not. I promise you it's not. Your values cannot be tradable. The experience I had, the last executive experience I had was about this. So so it is like there's there's it's non-negotiable. At some point when I resigned that position, uh one person have asked a person that that is close to me and said, Why was that a fire? And then this person, this this person, I said, he wasn't fired, he resigned. And this person said, Who resigns a position like that? He was doing great, but who resigns? And the answer was he does. And and and I think what my life taught me, obviously, being able to accomplish what we did gave me the choice, the Of executing that choice. And I know that this is not easy for everyone because we have needs in life and everything. But regardless, if you have choice, readact. Values are not tradable. I think this is this is the biggest learning. Like humility and that values are not negotiable under any circumstance. It is unmeasurable, the impact of it. So I would say that these are the two main angles of learning process that I had in my career. Honestly, I became more of an execution freak because I respect so much what I don't know. So I know that I have to sweat a lot to get things done and to be committed to execution, to be forced. So I'm a little grumpy on a daily basis because I need to get things done and I need to cover everything and to and to to work hard to learn and to and to get all the best talents, talents and skills and resources aligned on everything. But on the other side, and as a combination of it, there's a huge sense of resiliency that rises from this combination. And in the end, I am happy to be being able to build a company that invests in companies that we believe, that are built by people we believe. We work with people that we like, and we understand that these values, our values are absolutely non-negotiable. I think this is the greatest part of what we do now.

SPEAKER_00 23:36

Next, I want to touch on people. You mentioned at one point that you're very grateful for the kind of mentors you've had, the kind of people you've associated with. You spoke about rationality, behavioral finance. I'm sorry, you said behavioral finance, was it?

SPEAKER_01 23:51

Behavioral economics, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:52

Behavioral economics as uh something that you are very intrigued by, right? And I I have in my conversations realized that once people achieve a certain level in life, rather than chasing financial growth, they try and decode rationality and truth. And you know, quantum quantum physics eventually leads you to the ultimate source of truth. Exactly. Exactly. Behavioral economics and the fact that you had a background in a company which was trying to identify data points, right? Uh data does not lie, so it's either black or white. But do you feel in your experience people are always rational despite what data shows them?

SPEAKER_01 24:39

Or the that is great. The great, great questions. And and one thing that I've been loving about your podcast are the questions you made. So you make amazing questions, and and and and this is incredible talent. Congratulations again on that. You had a podcast with with Professor Lauren, Lauren Cohen, and and and whoa, uh like I'm shocked with with our faculty and the experience at OPM. I'm uh I'm so in love with with what we're living. But Lauren was telling that that he had as a professor Eugene Fama, who's who's who's one of the greatest economists of all time, and who thought about who who was one of the pillars of the market efficiency theory, right? And that comes to a point in which rationality needs to work in order to the market efficiency theory to be applied in real life. And I don't think it's a coincidence that we have three psychologists awarded with Nobel Prize for Economy by saying, like, we had Kirb Simon, we had Daniel Kahneman with the amazing, amazing story of system one, system two, like thinking fast and slow, and we had Richard Taylor with all those misbehaving and nudging theories and stuff. So, no, I don't believe I really rely on data. I think, I think what we are seeing, and we are so fortunate in uh in some uh in some angle to leave one of the greatest transformations of our existence. This is what is happening. I think data, what data means now is that we have the capability of processing, and now with all this AI and everything, uh well, our largest investment is in the industry. But uh, saying this, I would say that we have so the point is no, people are not rational all the time, markets are not efficient. And what we are living through, even from a capability of of uh predicting what will happen in the future, there's a compression in the foreseeable future, I would say. Things are so fast changing that that uh the combination of data and the adaptability, and uh and and people are being forced to, and I'm quoting Keynes like when when facts change, I change my opinion. This is exactly what we're having it do now. So, in a sense, I think the fast-changing environment and the availability of data and capability of data processing is forcing people to be more rational, yes, but in the end, it is about incentives. It is what drives each and every one of us, and I I don't think that we'll will get to a point, and call me romantic for that, but but I don't think that we'll get to a point in which data or artificial intelligence or anything will will entirely replace the the value of the human touch and soul applied to business and to relationships and everything that we do. And and unfortunately, we're not flawless, as I was saying, and and and we're driven by incentives, by sentiments, by everything. So, no, we're not efficient, we're not rational all the time. And honestly, I I thank I I thank for the fact that we're not l like that.

SPEAKER_00 28:17

What about this? You you mentioned you're now associated with an AI company which is disrupting the old business you started in some way, right? And now you spoke about incentive and rationality. AI does not have emotion, right? It's getting better and better each possible day, each passing year. Yes. Do you think it is possible to train AI to comprehend incentive?

SPEAKER_01 28:42

I I I do think so. I do think so. Uh because in the end, it is it is there's there's another author from from Behavior that is Dana Reali, and and he has a book, amazing book saying Predictable irrationality. So the point is uh incentives and and what drives decision making is at some point predictable because they're patterns. Like like you yourself mentioning when talking to Carolyn Elkins, the amazing professor Elkins, that history doesn't repeat itself, but it often rhymes. So in the end, you have a structural way of not predicting exactly what is going to happen, but some sort of outcome based on analyzing it from a macro and macro and micro perspective, crossing data, crossing everything. So, yes, I do think models can be trained to have some sort of prediction capabilities uh based on incentives, but but there's a fine line that that that I think human, either we're going to start testing that, or we're adapting to that, or or in some sort of Darwinism hope, you can call it for myself, if we evolve into a point that we that that we go deeper into into our capability of choosing, of making different decisions by taking advantage of all the tools that we have today, and that should should lead us to a less predictable model, and then AI will need to be trained more. So I think it's a it's a big evolution cycle in here. I don't know if I if I got confused and disaster. I don't know if I answer you.

SPEAKER_00 30:30

No, no, that's good. I'm just I'm trying to wonder, you know, if someday, because also you have a background in MA, AI can eventually identify incentives, pick the right match in terms of, you know, what companies to go after. Um and if you know they're doing a good job, eventually, you know, AI is just spitting out these companies based on the data it sees on, hey, here are the right matches, and if it has the parameters, it goes after trying to create transactions. But I don't want to ramble on there. I'm I'm not sure if my thought is very big.

SPEAKER_01 31:04

I say I had in in like 17 years ago, 16 years ago in Chicago, I had a professor who said one thing in an M ⁇ A class about about business owners and middle market companies. And and when replying to a question, a rhetorical question that he made on how do you know the the value of a private owned company in two seconds. And and people from class were trying to reach out and say, you ask the founder. You ask the founder. And and and he had a sentence that owners' motives matters most. And I've been living in this industry for basically my entire career, directly or indirectly. And I can tell you this is absolutely true. So I would say if you're looking into uh MA, into transactions, into investments, into everything, it is all about the people who leads companies, who makes decisions. And and and uh like we do invest in people. Like, yes, we do invest in an AI company, but but but but that was founded by a group of founders that I understood deeply the way they think, why they did it, what they expect, and how they want to develop the company in order to get there. I don't want to get into this discussion, but but but we have recently some some some exposures and discussions on the way anthropic was built. I against OpenAI and everything. I'll definitely do. I I'm not stepping into any judgmental stuff. But in the end, where the companies go, we we have this week while we're recording this podcast, we have the expectation of the SpaceX IPO, which is absolutely unthinkable, uh, what we're talking about from any angle you think. And that was driven by people, by the vision, by the capability of it. So if I can say something out of this experience, is that some business will definitely be faster disrupted by the greatest escalation of technology. But the decision making, if you want to look for a company, look for the people behind it before. I don't, I don't, I don't step into a company and will never do it again. I did it, and it cost me uh more than enough. I will never step into a company anymore that I don't deeply understand and get to to to make a deep assessment and interest assessment on people behind. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 33:48

I now want to go on to some questions, which are, you know, some some questions I like to ask everyone on the show. Most importantly, why did you consider going to the OPM program? You mentioned you've been to SCP in London. Yes. And so all that knowledge base that you've gotten with you, why consider another program?

SPEAKER_01 34:07

I had I'm I I'm addicted to learning. Like, like I I love learning. Love. I love reading, I love writing, I love researching, and and and I love being an ignorant. I love that. I love that the amount of things that I don't know is so much greater than the amount of things that I know. So I had a younger experience in executive education in Chicago. Then I had this amazing experience in London. And some good friends are OPMers. And one of my best friends, who's my partner here at Tuesday Capital, was also an OPM. I think he was OPM. I always get his cohorts wrong. I think it's it's it's uh 46, if I'm not mistaken. And uh my partner at the bank, the guy who made my who made me the offer and made me become a partner of the bank, is a former OPM as well. I just flew from Rio to Sao Paulo with him on the same plane now, uh a couple of hours ago. And and and uh so they incentivated me a lot, and and and I was worried about the amount of things we're deploying new funds, our invested companies are doing great, but three funds or four funds simultaneously fundraising and and and all the transformation, acquisition in the US and everything. And then as I was saying, I have I I have my wife and my kids, and and they just look and say, it's Harvard. Like it, it's it's a dream. Like I always dreamed going to Harvard. And and and and it's it's like the the holy grail of of learning, I think, for for for everyone in the world. It's an honor to carry that badge in my chest and to have the opportunity. And and and and once they backed me, and my wife and kids just agreed on the fact that I I had to take the opportunity and to dive into it, because there will never be a perfect moment for this. There will always be challenges, always be situations in life that will turn that will turn a moment into non-ideal. If you want to focus on the challenges you have, you'll never have an ideal. So the the the ability to exchange with these great, great diversity of people and experiences, uh, this is amazing. But but having my family and my and my partners in here backing me up and pushing me to were were the key to my decision-making process, certainly.

SPEAKER_00 36:40

You just finished Unit 1 last week. Congratulations on that. What has been one of your biggest takeaways that you, or maybe a few of them, right? Any cases, uh any professors, any conversations?

SPEAKER_01 36:54

I think uh I was, you know, I was talking to to Jeff, our professor, on the farewell dinner, and I was talking about Das, like Das is a rock star, right? Das is a rock star. I had a professor in London that is from Cyprus called Costas Marquis, that is such, he's Das, but but but a rock star. And and and so Das, this, this, the concept of adjacency is amazing. The the the the simplicity of it is amazing. But but I was talking to Jeff and I was I was telling him how how much I I really liked his classes because he was able to balance the moments in which he was showing knowledge and he was delivering what he was supposed to, and guiding those discussions into where they believed was the best outcomes, and also letting the audience discuss, capture that huge amount of background and knowledge. So Francis was incredible. Her life, her conversations about feedbacks, the triangle, the anchor aspect of it, uh trying, forcing us to look at where's your wobble, like how do you deal with it, how do you find it was absolutely amazing. I think uh Heise brought some some some great views. I really liked the Grammy discussion. It was really, really interesting. Surprisingly, in my opinion, the most interesting from from from Heise's uh one, because you you you you might tend to look at the friendly fire because of his background and obviously what happens in there, but I love the Grammy discussion. And uh last but not least, and I don't want to be unfair with the other professors that I'm not coding because we have limited time, and I'm so honored to to to be to be taught and to have the chance to learn by by all our faculty, but Lawrence's discussion on the Murdochs was absolutely incredible. Like, like I we had a discussion in that class about, and we could make a series of podcasts on this, so I won't I'll promise I won't take long, but on the concept that it's the idea of imposing a legacy, like of fighting for a legacy, some sort of narcissism in in which someone refuses to deal with death and and with the finitude of life and and and and and focus on that, that is so open-minded because if you think from a broader perspective, like free will, connecting, letting people fly and build their things and and and everything, and all those transitions, amazing discussions. And DPEx sessions, everything. It was just amazing. Just amazing. I could stop quoting all of our professors, carry out because it's incredible. Everyone, Kevin, Juan and the Lego stuff, and I don't know, everyone is amazing.

SPEAKER_00 40:08

This is one of the benefits of speaking with someone from OPM68. Everything is so fresh for you that a lot of the things I had that. I forgot about that. And so I'm basically brought up so many different themes and uh topics you touched on because that brings a lot of uh my learnings and takeaways back, which I think was somewhere at the back of my head, but not consciously coming to my mind of late. I want to ask you, you've you've spoken about certain books. Is there any, you know, any any couple books you want to talk about which might have influenced your thinking? And I also want you to please touch on you know what got you interested in quantum physics and why are you interested in quantum physics?

SPEAKER_01 40:48

So uh I'll I'll start by the hardest one. Quantum physics was a matter of faith. And yes, faith. I was I was raised, Brazil is pretty much a Christian country, and and and back in the days, even more Catholic. Now you have like a blend uh in the Christian side. And and but my mom, who I owe basically everything I was able to build in my life for the fight that she had. She's an absolutely incredible woman. I was really fortunate with my parents, to be honest. And she she she forced me as a kid to learn about religions and to respect diversity of religions. And that gave me a great things that I applied in my life, which is respect for diversity, understanding multiple faiths. Because if you think like in from a big perspective, most of the religions are are quite alike, right? The the the the understanding the greatness of what you can call God or whatever it is, something bigger than us, and and and and and doing good things, and and and and all the structures there is about bringing the best in us. The downside of learning and studying about so many religions was that I was fighting with myself to understand, like, okay, how can I explain my existence? And now that I know a lot about this, where should I get attached to? And and and I got into studying like spiritism, like the the Alain Kardec's doctrine and stuff. And from learning about studying about reincarnation and everything, there's a there's a almost a symbiotic relation with with the the Kardec's doctrine and quantum physics. And then I started moving to that and and and and was like trying to find answers. So uh trying to find answers that pragmatically could fit and calm my heart on understanding where to go. So it's pretty much a blend of that. And I do believe that that from a faith perspective, that that yes, we are here for for a bigger purpose. We are here for, and I respect all religions for for for from from a gift from a greater God that that that we have to honor this in here, but but it was the willingness and the need to call my heart that that that that rose that interest into quantum physics. And uh now the easiest part, which is books. Uh and taking the connection with your last question, there's a book from an author called Blake Crouch that is called Dark Matter. Dark Matter became a TV show at Apple. I have read the book like way before the the TV show, and they did a good adaptation. It's it's hard to make a great adaptation. But it is about choices. It is, and I'm not giving a spoiler, but the structure of the book is based on the quantum physics idea, every decision we make, every path we choose, the path that we didn't choose happens in some parallel reality. And the book faces, puts the guy to face that discussion into what would have happened on the lives that he didn't choose to live. And this is so profound if you look at your life. And that book really changed my life. So I love that. And I love the the theory of the Schrdinger's cat paradox. And I love that. And so Dark Matter from Blake Kraut, I talked about Daniel Kahneman, the the the thinking fast and slow became some sort of bestseller. So it may sound like a cliche, but it's amazing. I like Nudge from Taylor and Misbehaving from Taylor, but maybe nudge. And and I think, and the book that I loved the most in my life, and I and I read the the big version of it, it's The Count of Monte Cristo from Alexandre Dumas, which is an unbelievable story of resiliency, of values, of commitment. And I love that story. So I can definitely close this with the Count of Monte Cristo.

SPEAKER_00 45:28

Yeah. Incredible, incredible. Don't want to take up a lot of your time. I know you've been very generous. I do want to ask you though, if uh if you've changed your mind on a belief you might have had about 10 years ago, you know, from 2014.

SPEAKER_01 45:43

Oh, I learned so much. Sorry, and I made so many bad decisions. I took some so many bad decisions, misjudgments. I promise you, life forced me to be humble, not because I smart, I was smart enough to see things, but I was stupid enough to force myself to feel the effects of the choices. So I would say respect what you don't know, I would say my younger self, but do not underestimate what you know and what you believe. I think this is a powerful combination. Belief, trust and and and commitment combined with humility. It is, I wish, I really wish I could we could teach our kids to have this view earlier in life because this is so valuable. And there's a quote that that that became some sort of an official saying in the company that I founded and sold and started following me through my life. And I say this all the time. And if I can finish with a message, which is also I I'm not forcing you to finish. I could stay here talking to you all day long. I love doing this. But it is there are no extraordinary results that come from ordinary efforts. This is this guides me on every day. So deliver more, commit more, do more. And I'm not talking about professional, I'm talking that makes you a best, uh, a better friend, better husband, a better wife, a better father, a better son. Just just understanding that that if you commit and if you apply the effort, you will get extraordinary results. And that can be done. So that is that is uh one thing that I will certainly teach myself younger. But in the end, you know, I'm pretty happy with the outcome. Um there's an expression in golf, I'm a lousy golfer, but passion for golf, that that golf is a great proxy of life because you can get great outcomes of poor shots and terrible outcomes of great shots. But there's a joke that is said in golf that I better be lucky than good. And that is somehow true. But in the end, we have to give our luck some help. Because if we don't do our share, our luck, wealth will definitely now make itself alone.

SPEAKER_00 48:24

Amazing. Dato, thank you very much. You uh I think you shared a lot of wisdom with us, a lot to reflect on as well. And that's the whole purpose of this podcast. So thank you very much for distilling all your learnings from at least the last 12 years, if not more, and uh putting them in this, you know, in this one-hour time slot. Much appreciated.

SPEAKER_01 48:43

It is it is an amazing pleasure. Count on me on this initiative. If you ever find a moment to put like four or five OPMers on the same podcast to make an open discussion, I think this live discussion is incredible and the exchange. But what you are doing is really valuable. And if I can contribute anyhow, just count on me. It is is it is amazing what you're doing. Keep it up. Thank you, A.

SPEAKER_00 49:09

Thank you. Yeah.