SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hey, welcome everyone to another episode of Beyond the Case. This is a podcast where global leaders from Harvard Business School's OPM community join in a personal capacity. They share the life lessons, mental models, principles which go behind building enduring and successful businesses. It's not often that we have multiple participants from the same business representing the business and themselves. And today I have the pleasure of speaking with Min Wilson. She is from OPM66, and she's related to one of my most favorite people from OPM67, Lynette Leigh. Lynette is a special and dear friend. She was on this podcast, I believe, episode four or five. And I mean, it's a pleasure to connect with you as well. I'd love to learn about your journey, your background.

SPEAKER_01 0:48

Hello, Soheen. Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure to finally meet you. Lynette is also one of my favorite people, so we have that in common. My name is Min Wilson. I am the owner and CEO of Encouraged Martial Arts. And because everybody asks me this question, I answer it right away. I am a black belt. I have a fifth degree black belt in Taekwondo. I started taking martial arts classes when I was seven years old. And I started working when I was 14. At the age of 19, I made the decision to drop out of college and become a full-time martial arts instructor. And coincidentally, that decision is why I'm at Harvard Business School now and why I'm sitting with you today.

SPEAKER_00 1:34

What was your first job at the age of 14?

SPEAKER_01 1:37

I worked at the martial arts school and I was like an assistant. So we don't just teach martial arts classes. There's also after school and summer camp programs. And I was very much involved with helping the kids with crafts, running games. I was also helping with classes on the floor as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:56

And so touch on the inspiration for the founding movement. I've heard a bit of this from Lynette during her podcast, but would love a refresher.

SPEAKER_01 2:03

Absolutely. The martial arts changed my life. And I'll give a little bit of background. I'm Vietnamese, so my family is originally from Vietnam. We actually immigrated to the United States on a refugee program. My dad fought in the Vietnam War. And when we lost, he was put in a concentration camp for seven years. And that's how my family qualified to come to the United States. And landing here, my parents didn't speak any English. They had three young kids to provide for, and they didn't know the culture. So growing up, I really witnessed them just working very hard, a lot of blue-collar jobs just to provide for us. So we didn't have much in the term of like material things. I don't remember presents or birthdays or getting to vacation, but all of the core things that were important, like having a loving family, my siblings, you know, seeing my parents' perseverance and grit, that was key and foundational to who I am today and my entrepreneurial journey. And so at the age of seven, my brother and I walked into a martial arts school. They had a free trial and we signed up to take a trial class. And I loved it. I've always been a tomboy. So I was like, mom, can we please take taekwondo? And of course, you know, we didn't have the resources. So she and my father couldn't pay for it. And at the time, our martial arts instructor said, you know what? Just come for free and help, help out around the school. And that simple act of kindness changed my whole life, right? And that's really why I'm sitting with you, how we've created the businesses that we have. It started with one martial arts school, and now we have 26 units under our brand. Six company-owned in Northern Virginia, and then another 20 affiliate schools spanning from New York all the way down to Florida.

SPEAKER_00 3:59

Wow, what a journey. I wonder if the profess the instructor, the martial arts instructor who who helped you get started knows about where you've landed in your career today and how far you've come.

SPEAKER_01 4:10

Absolutely. He is still a part of my life today, and uh he's actually family. So this is a very funny story. But my I my husband is married to my husband's sister, is married to his brother. So that's how we all connected. So he's still very much a part of my life, and he still owns a martial arts school here near us. And yes, so we are still very much interconnected, family, and it's it's been wonderful.

SPEAKER_00 4:44

Share a little more about who else is involved in the business. Uh, just before we started recording, you were guiding me on how the family is so deeply connected and involved in this business. Will you just uh speak a little more about that, please?

SPEAKER_01 4:58

Sure. So as I said, my brother and I started martial arts together. And him and I are both owners of Encourage Martial Arts. So we have always been on this journey. And I will say I am now the higher belt. So he's only a fourth degree, and I've surpassed him to be a fifth, and that's something that I really like to dig in as a little sister. But it's really been wonderful to work with family. And I will say it's not easy at all. So we've had many challenges, but when it comes down to it, one thing that we established early on between two and I is if ever the business affects our family relationship, one of us will exit because that is the most important thing, our relationship as brother and sister. And now it's gotten even better because Lynette, who is Two's wife, is also a part of the business. And my husband, Kevin, is also a part of it as well. He got into the martial arts business coming out of college. He went into the corporate world, hated it, left, and started working at a martial arts school, bought one over and became an owner, and now it's under our brand at Encouraged. So it's really the four of us working together. It's something that I realized at OPM how special because I'm talking to a lot of friends, and they say how lonely it can be, right? When you're building a business, it can get very lonely at the top. And something I'm really grateful for is I've never felt lonely in business. There's always been someone who I can call to lean on, and that is something that's truly irreplaceable.

SPEAKER_00 6:39

I think what's so fascinating about your journey is usually family businesses are created by parents and passed on to the next of kin. And that's how the next generation is involved and attempts to stay close to each other. The fact that a brother, sister, their better halves have all agreed on common values, are able to grow this business further as well. I'm not sure I've come across other businesses with such a fundamental layer of business pr values, which keeps them united. So I think that's very, very unique about uh your situation.

SPEAKER_01 7:14

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 7:15

I wonder what conversations are like over lunches and at home.

SPEAKER_01 7:19

We spend a lot of time together. We do. Just our kids, I have three young kids, and two and Lynette have four young kids, all around the same age. And they're the cousins, their favorite thing is to hang out with each other. And they're constantly, when am I gonna see my cousins? What are we gonna do? Where are we going? So not only do we have business meetings together and business lunches, and we travel for business together, we're traveling for vacation together. We spend a lot of time at the beach house and you know, making these fundamental memories. And because of that, it even reinforces more for us that, hey, we have to keep our relationship really strong. We have to make sure we communicate in a manner that is thoughtful and respectful. And the core of everything is, you know, our love for family. I've shared, we didn't come up, we didn't have much. Two and I didn't have much. So everything that we have now is from what we've built and from the sacrifice that our parents made for us. I think about that a lot, is my my parents sacrificed their whole life to give me a better chance, a better future. And when we had nothing, what we did have is always family. And so that's why really core to how we operate is that family first. And, you know, no matter how successful, how big the businesses get, we just have to make sure that communication and the love of family stays very strong and pass that on to our kids as well.

SPEAKER_00 8:51

Is there anything that the current generation is doing to ensure that the next generation recognizes these sacrifices? Because I think for you and your brother, you know, it's evident you talk to your parents every day and there's some reflection of their sacrifices. But is there some level of insecurity, let's say, that, hey, will the next generation recognize where we come from, what our roots are, how far we've come, and you know what they have the opportunity to carry on with?

SPEAKER_01 9:19

This is definitely something that has run through my mind now that my kids are getting a little bit older, eight, nine, and eleven years old, because I grew up with nothing. So everything I had to work for, right? Everything I see, I'm so grateful for. This, this house, this the vacations we get to go on, being able to set up Harvard Business School. And I'm seeing my kids, they're now living in a reality that I could only dream of as a kid. It would be, I tell them all the time, this is mommy's dream. If I could have your childhood. And for my husband and I, what we're just trying to instill in them is this idea of you can achieve whatever you want. You can achieve whatever you want, but you have to be willing to work for it. And we take them to work. So I, they're very much going to encourage martial arts and they're seeing, you know, us in there with our team. They're seeing they're involved in the business, they're playing the games and exposing them to that and showing them through our hard work. I think that sets a foundational example for them. For me, it seeing how hard my parents are working to provide for us, that I expressed is core to why I work so hard. And I want them to see, hey, everything we have is because mommy and daddy, you know, their work ethic and what they've built. And so I hope that they can see that and achieve their dreams.

SPEAKER_00 10:42

Min, uh, when you look at martial arts, is it just a form of sport for you, or is there a bigger purpose that you feel martial ha martial arts brings about, not just in your life, but every child that gets involved in this journey?

SPEAKER_01 10:56

So, Heen, I truly believe that our most precious resource is the next generation of leaders that are coming up. And the kids right now, our youth, they need us to lean in now more than ever. There's a huge obesity problem with kids. It's an epidemic in the United States. They're just not getting enough movement. But also these kids are growing up in a very screen-dominated world. Very screen with the social media, Snapchat, TikTok, right? We're seeing anxiety is higher than ever in teens, depression. They don't know how to speak with one another, right? Interpersonal skills, social skills continue to decline because they're texting so much. And at encourage, our purpose is to empower individuals and to make a positive impact in our communities. And most of our members are youth between the ages of four and 14. There are four things that we really work on. We call it the four S's. First is safety. When working with kids, we have to provide a very safe environment physically and mentally. Second is smile, because if they're smiling, they're having fun. And if they're having fun, they're learning. Third is sweat. We need these kids to sweat when they are with us on the mats, getting that cardiovascular and getting that exercise. And then the fourth is what we just added in the last 12 months, which is this socialization piece. So when they step onto the mats at Encourage, we're teaching them how to introduce themselves. They have to stand up. They learn about tonality, body posture, and they're introducing themselves. We're facilitating relationships and friendships, right? Real time. There's no screens. And that's why the martial arts, I think, is so popular, so widespread throughout the United States and globally, is we're not just teaching kicking, punching, and self-defense. They're really learning these core life skills: respect, discipline, confidence, having a positive attitude. And I'm sure you can tell by how I'm talking, it's because it changed my life. I was seven years old when I started martial arts. I didn't have much structure. I didn't have confidence in myself, right? And I was really shy. And coming into this environment, it taught me all of these things and it reinforced the values that we had at home. And for me, every new school that we open, every affiliate school that comes under our brand, these are individual kids and communities that we get to empower. So really strong purpose. And I'm really grateful that this is what I get to do and this is what our business does.

SPEAKER_00 13:29

Phenomenal. Could you talk a little bit about your family's association with the OPM program? How that has been going, the inspiration for each member to sign up for this program.

SPEAKER_01 13:44

Yes. OPM is now something that's very special to our family. So my brother, too, he's kicked it off. He is an OPM 65. And he invited Lynette and I to come in and sit in on a class when he was in Unit One. And we got to sit in and watch DOS. And if you're an OPM, you know who Professor Doss is. He's very charismatic. He's just really incredible. He has a very incredible way of getting the lesson across in a way that has really nothing to do with the case, or not what you would think is the case. And after that, you know, he introduced us and it really inspired at least me and I think Lynette to apply for the OPM program. And we both applied. I ended up going to OPM 66. Lynette deferred because she just had a baby. And so she is in 67. And my husband, who we hope will want to apply as well, will be in a future OPM program. But what makes it really special is these cases that we're studying and what we're talking about and the experiences that we have. Now all of us are really speaking that same language. And we can say, hey, this is the strategy that we want to attack for our business and relate it to a case. And instead of me having to explain what that case is, they already know. And that makes it so powerful and keeps us again in alignment towards the same goal.

SPEAKER_00 15:14

Phenomenal. Do you all end up talking about cases at home or even at work? Are there any common cases that you know the three of you all till now have been associated with?

SPEAKER_01 15:24

Yes. Yes. We talk a lot about the cases. We talk even more, I will say, just about the experience because when you're going through it, no one really understands unless you went through it. You've you've been through unit one. So you can understand why. When you're there in those three weeks, it's really all you can do is just to stay present because the mind dump and the the coaching and the living group accelerators, it's we talk a lot about wow, what a wild experience that is and how Harvard really curated such a special way to a deep dive into three weeks. The one case that sticks out, I know I don't think you've met her yet, is Professor Francis Fry. I she I just met her this past unit in unit two. And so I talk a lot about the value map, and I'm talking a lot to two about this idea of the value map and also just, you know, our wobble and our anchor, which is something that she taught us about how to build trust. And being able to share and understand each other's wobbles and anchors has been wonderful. We share our canter as well on hey, you know, they have you take that test. And in the living group, you go over your canter results. And so we share, hey, are you meaning? Are you logic? Are you empathy? All of these things. And it helps strengthen our communication and understanding of one another.

SPEAKER_00 16:49

Do y'all have different uh takeaways from a case? Has that ever happened where you know something's been discussed in class? Y'all, you know, y'all are at home now, and uh one person's read of that situation might have been completely different from the others, and it almost turns into um a case debate at home for y'all.

SPEAKER_01 17:08

Yes. I will say we have a lot of similar thoughts, but we also do have some differing thoughts when it comes to specific cases, but more so I remember specifically coming home from Unit One, and I was so pumped, Soheen. Like coming out of that, it's almost like you're injected with steroids, right? Like, I came home, like, I'm gonna take over the whole martial arts industry. We're gonna roll up 500 schools and we're gonna just kill it. And uh, my brother, who, you know, went through this before and has come down from that high of coming out of unit one to was very patient. And he would just, you know, listen to me laugh a little bit and say, Yes, well, let's just give it a few weeks. Let's see how you feel in a few weeks. And then, of course, I would come down from the high and be like, okay, we won't roll up 500 schools. This is, you know, then really just to stabilize our strategy. But it's that's that's what really I think about is just having someone who's gone through it to understand those really big emotions and to help stabilize as we get more concrete.

SPEAKER_00 18:16

Decision-making work at your organization, you know, now that there's family members from the same generation involved. And like I mentioned before, you know, y'all have not been handed this on a platter with a family governance structure set in place or any constitution. So y'all have to wing this and figure it out. So, how do you all come to a consensus if there's differing opinions?

SPEAKER_01 18:35

Unit two really helped when we had the family office classes. And uh, this is something that we're establishing right now. So it's really just been a big blessing to be able to sit and go through the OPM units and have other families and other friends that have these family offices that have established and gone through challenges. So I've been able to talk to a lot of my friends as we're figuring out how we are going to handle this because we are first generation, right? And as you said, in OPM, there's a lot of second, third generation people there that have gotten businesses passed down. So we're kind of setting everything up right now. Each of us right now has a vote. So there's a four of us on the martial arts side, that really is something that my husband and I are focused on. There's also a software company, and that's what two and Lynette are focused on. So it really helps. And both of the businesses go together because the software company that was created for the martial arts, right? For our martial arts schools. I think Lynette touched on this a little bit while she was speaking with you. We saw this need. We were using a bunch of different softwares that weren't doing what we needed. So two and Lynette created a software for us. And now this is its own company servicing 3,000 businesses globally. And it, you know, so in that respect, it's kind of nice that we're able to each have our own businesses that we're focusing on that kind of go together. So they focus on the software, we focus on the martial arts, and we're really a team. So if I need a different perspective, I'll present it and they'll say, what about this? Or this sounds good, and they'll poke holes, we'll talk about it. If we're ever in disagreement, we take some time and say, hey, let's table it, let's think about it a little bit more, and we revisit until everybody is in agreement.

SPEAKER_00 20:24

Is there any hero syndrome that, you know, that might come across in the family at any point where one person raises their hand and says, I'll take charge of the situation, I know what to do here. Um, you know, this may not need a discussion. Let's just run with what I think is correct. Not out of, you know, ego or any of that, but just, you know, there's so much conviction and hey, it's family, you know. It's not like I'm gonna be fired. Is that something that, you know, that uh you've seen happen or that there might be a temptation for for anyone at any point?

SPEAKER_01 20:50

Yes. And I will say I have been fired, so he and so I'll share that. Very early on, though, very early on, uh, when T and I were building the schools together. This was before Kevin and I. We have very similar personalities where we're very strong-willed, right? I think it's just how we grew up. We're really strong-willed, fearless, very stubborn. And when we get an idea, we really stick to that idea. And it's been a really big journey with my brother and just how we communicate and how we disagree. So at one point, we got to a point where I think it was very heated. It was not, it was just a really challenging time in our partnership together. And so he said he fired me. I said I quit. You know, there were tears. I'm driving back to my house. And of course, 15 minutes later, the phone rings and he's like, it's my brother. I pick up, obviously, because I, you know, I love him. And we're just like, let's not do this, we're better than this. So I have been fired for sure. And through all of those challenges, I will say there's a lot of trust that's been built. So if he feels like hey, Really strongly about something and that he wants to lead it, or if Lynette or Kevin, we have the trust in one another that we trust that you can do it. And if you you feel strongly, we'll push back, we'll give our honest opinions, we'll poke holes, we'll talk it through. And if you want to take it, we trust that you have the integrity, but also the the knowledge to do it. And if they and if it doesn't work, then we'll figure it out.

SPEAKER_00 22:24

I'm very passionate about reading, and I'm wondering if there's any books you have read which might have influenced, you know, the way you look at life today, the way you lead your business.

SPEAKER_01 22:33

After Harvard, I took a little break from reading because it's a lot of reading, and I have been watching a lot of long-form podcasts. This idea of neuroplasticity is something that I've been diving into as of late. And basically, what neuroplasticity is, it's rewiring our brains. So the idea of what we're reading, what we're doing, the thoughts that we're putting into our brain is actually creating neuropathways. So something that I've started doing since February coming back from Unit 2 is I've been journaling. So each morning I'll wake up, I'll have my cup of matcha, and I pull out my gratitude journal and I just start writing all of the things that I'm really grateful for. And it can sometimes it's really in detail, other times it's just a few bullet points. And this has brought me so much peace because, you know, it is challenging when you have three young kids and a husband and a business that is growing. That morning routine of journaling, seeing the positive, everything that I should be grateful for, visualizing how my day will be, it has brought a lot of peace into my life. And it really has made me just better in the way that I show up for my kids during the day, for my team, for my husband. If you were to tell me even six months ago that I would be doing gratitude journals and visualizations in the morning, I would laugh because it sounds very like a hippie, right? Like a yogi. And that's not something I ever visualize for myself. But it has truly been life-changing just to sit down for like 15 minutes to do that. It's been so good that I've actually started doing it with my kids as well. So I got them gratitude journals, and every day they just pull it out, and it's three little bullet points on what they're grateful for. And I've seen a change in them where their default now is a positive outlook versus saying, Oh, I'm so tired, or, you know, this is so hard. They're changing that mindset to seeing the positive things. Like, okay, yes, I'm happy that I get to go to school because I'm learning, or I get to be a part of this travel soccer club that is really hard to make. And even though I don't want to go to practice, you know, I've worked so hard and it's a privilege to learn from this coach. And it's wonderful to see that, not just in myself, but my kids.

SPEAKER_00 24:55

Lovely. I love that. Thank you for sharing sharing that. In closing, I just want to ask you, you know, if if you could uh go back in time, talk to yourself, you know, maybe you're 17 or you're 14. Uh is there anything you'd do differently this time? Any advice you'd have for yourself?

SPEAKER_01 25:08

I would say sit at the table. That's what I would tell myself, because I'm very such a harsh critic, right? And so when I was younger, I would feel that I'm not prepared. I'm not ready to do that. And I need to accomplish X, Y, and Z before I can even sit there. So, what I would tell my younger self is just sit at that table. Even if you don't feel ready, sit there because let's say even if you're not ready, you're gonna learn so much just being at the table.

SPEAKER_00 25:39

Wonderful, Min. Thank you very much. Uh, this conversation was so refreshing, very different from a lot of the other conversations we come across. So I appreciate your time a lot. And I look forward to meeting you in person someday.

SPEAKER_01 25:50

Yes, Soheen, come down to DC. I would love to see you. I've heard wonderful things, and thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_00 25:56

Yeah, thank you. Be well.

SPEAKER_01 25:58

Bye.